Talk:School uniform

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Why are there no pictures of black students?

Why is there no picture of any black students in school uniform (African or Caribbean) in this article? Only pictures of white and Asian students are in the article. Have the creators of the article forgotten that black students also exist? I'm really disturbed by this constant and systematic exclusion of black people i keep seeing in all these wikipedia articles about human culture and history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tammorrr (talk • contribs) 05:15, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

WP:SOAPBOX applies broadly here, but on the other hand you could slake your paranoia by adding some yourself or taking a gander at School uniforms by country which should satisfy.

This image for example, contains at least one black person, but I accept that he's not a student. Chaheel Riens (talk) 11:47, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

@Tammorrr: it may be good to find a freely used picture of a black child in a uniform. Some search engines let you do so WhisperToMe (talk) 03:07, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Current version of the article is significantly different, and the concern seem to have been resolved by in the inclusion of African content. Klbrain (talk) 05:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Critical information are not mentioned due to bias-blindness.

As a German who lived for many years in the UK, this entire page is one-sided, as it mostly (and quite naturally) reflects the views held by persons living in English-speaking countries. In my opinion the following information are lacking:

1) School uniforms are mostly present in countries that are, or were part of the Commonwealth of Nations. In contrast, almost no country in continental Europe has actually school uniforms.

2) The PISA results (https://www.oecd.org/pisa/Combined_Executive_Summaries_PISA_2018.pdf), in conjunction with my first point, are hard prove that school uniforms have neither any positive nor any negative impact on school results. Therefore, it is a purely cultural dimension.

3) From my second point follows also that school uniforms have no impact on behavior. There is no claim or even prove that French and Polish kids (who don’t wear uniform) are worse behaved in school, or at any other time, than English or Irish kids (who do).

4) About the point that school uniforms prevent bulling etc.: Various German teachers told me that there is virtually never a problem with boys. They just don't mind clothing that much. In contrast, some girls enter a phase of "show-off" that can last from the age of 11 to 14. However, as clothing is extremely cheap nowadays, even poorer girls don't get hung up for long. And from my experience, the kids in the UK have had various alternative ways to show off, like electronics or backpacks. (unsigned)

In accordance with WP:NPOV, Wikipedia takes no view on this controversy. Both sides of the argument are presented, in the section headed "Effects or uniforms on students", mentioning the conflicting conclusions of different research projects, and more generally in the sections headed "Positives" and "Negatives". Your point 1 is only partially correct. It is true that school uniforms have largely disappeared from continental Europe, but Catholic schools in France had them within living memory, and some private schools in Spain still do. Also, many schools in Thailand, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Indonesia have strict uniform policies, and none of those countries was ever in the Commonwealth. I do agree though that the article is somewhat US-centric, like most articles in the English Wikipedia. Your remedy is to add to the article more information about other countries. -- Alarics (talk) 17:03, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

@Alarics: Thank you for your excellent reply. I agree on most points with you.

However, your arguments on continental Europe seem of low relevancy to me: I lived in 2019 for about a year in Nantes, a major city in France. The very vast majority of kids there did not wear a uniform, except for those that attended the one catholic faith school. I can't comment on Spain.

My point is that as long as there is freedom, there will always exist some private selective schools that want to differentiate themselves by such means. Those are however the exceptions. This should not prevent Wikipedia to state the fact that continental Europe, except for Russia, does not have uniforms for the overwhelming majority of kids.

Should you do not agree than please apply your rule in revers: In Edinburgh, Scotland, exists a very large state-run school that beats frequently all the private schools there and is proud to have no uniform. Thus, let us remove the reference to the UK as a country with school uniforms!

Why do I care: Because Wikipedia is a major input for kids researching this topic in preparation of essays etc. It is a very important point to state unambiguously that continental Europe can be taken as an obvious and hard prove (without the need for scientific sources which are usually costly to get by and too complex to handle for that age group) that school uniform does not improve either results nor behaviour. This seems very important to me because those false arguments are the main points of school governors when insisting on a uniform.

I do think that school uniforms are a very useful thing: they do have a major impact on how prestigious the school is perceived by parents and the community. Those status arguments are entirely valid. Also, in countries with extreme inequality, there can be valid reasons for a uniform - as long as the uniforms are subsidized for the poorest kids (as they need home clothes too) and all schools have exactly the same uniform to prevent kids attending low ranking schools to be identified easily which will negatively impact their self-worth.

Wiki Education assignment: LLIB 1115 - Intro to Information Research

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 16 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Joannaolsen12 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Joannaolsen12 (talk) 17:27, 5 October 2022 (UTC)